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Concours Battery Cables

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For concours judging, what would the correct battery cable be for a 1962 ('63) TR3-B-helmet or not?
Are there any good suppliers for a set?
Thanks,
John  TCF 839 L

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John TCF839L
member
468 posts

The (helmet) battery terminals used on the sidescreen cars were made by Lucas and were lead.  I don't know anyone who makes them.  However, British Wiring does offer very nice cast bronze terminals which are faithful reproductions of the originals.  They also supply both positive (earth) and negative (insulated) battery cables.


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TRtags
SE PA
TR3A TS58476LO The Grey Lady(currently being restored)
TR250 CD1510LO
member
74 posts

On the advice of Mark Macy I ordered a set of these helmet cables from this vendor. They arrived promptly and were very well done. I'm sure you will be pleased if you decide to make this purchase. I did have to paint the helmets a "lead" color.  At most of the local shows I attend "Emily" is the only one with the helmet cables on her battery.  Makes her quite proud!

Cheers,

Ray

TR3-A
TS54473L

member
468 posts

Ray:  To avoid ever having to paint these bronze helmet terminals, we "tinned" ours with rosin-core solder. This can be seen in the photo above. Since you need to solder the terminals and cables anyway, you just heat the terminals first with a propane torch until the solder flows. Then just wipe off the excess.  It does help to use a good quality solder flux on the helmets!

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TRtags
SE PA
TR3A TS58476LO The Grey Lady(currently being restored)
TR250 CD1510LO
member
468 posts

To avoid ever having to paint these terminals, this is what we did.   Since you have to solder your terminals and cables anyway, first coat the terminals with flux paste and heat them up with a propane torch, until solder flows freely on the surface.    Be sure to do this on all of the surfaces both outside and inside the helmet.  Wipe off any excess solder.  Now do the same thing  to the end of each battery cable.  Be sure to strip off just enough insulation on the negative battery cable, heat up the ends with your torch and "tin" them.   Now you can solder the cable end and helmet together and the pre-tinned terminal/cable will make this an easy job that also looks good.

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TRtags
SE PA
TR3A TS58476LO The Grey Lady(currently being restored)
TR250 CD1510LO
member
27 posts

Thank you Ray and TRtags for thegreat info on proper cable application! I did get my order in to British Wiring today for the materials needed along with a few sundry parts for clean electronics. Trtags; I really like the idea of tinning the helmets for a lead look. I'll certainly try this out. I noticed on your picture of the negative cable that there's a wrap of some sort between the cable and helemt. Was this due to the need to strip enough insulation off to tourch heat the cable or did the original cables have a "neck wrap"?  I'm wondering whether Eastwood's heat sink paste would help mitigate the loss of insulation.
John
TCF 839 L

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John TCF839L
member
468 posts

If your careful, you won't damage the insulation where it meets the terminal.  After you tin the helmet let it cool a bit.  Then strip the insulation from the battery cable and tin the copper strands.  Apply more solder paste in the hole (helmet) for the cable and to the tinned cable end.  Stick the cable end into the helmet.  Using your propane torch, heat the helmet (not the cable) until the solder starts flowing.  Apply a little more solder and it will wick into the helmet and cable. 

What you see in the photo, where the cable meets the helmet,  is a short piece of shrink sleeve.   I did this to make it look like an original cable I saw in the workshop manual.

Frank

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TRtags
SE PA
TR3A TS58476LO The Grey Lady(currently being restored)
TR250 CD1510LO
member
456 posts

Too bad the repros lack the accessory loop on the negative cable. There's nothing to be done about it, and we don't worry over it for concours.  

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John Warfield
TS227LO
member
27 posts

Thanks Trtags thats great info!

 John, I'm guessing that the accesory loop was cast right into the lead cap itself. It's interesting to me that if some of these suppliers go to all of the effort to produce a product -like theses helmet caps- that they don't do it accurately to ther original.
John TCF839L

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John TCF839L
member
74 posts

Great idea for recreating the original look by tinning the helmets! I ordered my cables assembled as I figured they just might do a bit better job than I could do.  We are currently spiffing "Emily" up for her
voyage to Fort Wayne and hope to "tin" her helmets prior to the trip.

Thanks again for sharing  a great idea!  The members of TRA never cease to amaze me.

Cheers,

Ray


member
456 posts

The loop is cast into the head.

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John Warfield
TS227LO
member
468 posts

Gee, considering the minor change in the mold, it's too bad that the bronze terminal isn't cast like this.
Incidentally, I have never seen this style terminal in a TR3A.  What was the purpose of this extra "terminal"?

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TRtags
SE PA
TR3A TS58476LO The Grey Lady(currently being restored)
TR250 CD1510LO
member
76 posts

John,
According to the TRA Judging Standards & Restoration Guidelines, page UH-10   "The lead cap connectors provide marginal contact with the posts and some dealers reportedly replaced these with conventional clamp connectors."
I believe this statememt has resulted in no deduction for clamp type connectors in TRA Concours.  I can't be certain but at the minimum this should be clarified.  I have been running original Lucas Helmets that I was so lucky to find on my TR3B for decades w/o problems.  I believe there should be a deduction for Triumphs w/o the proper cables and using battery cut out devices but that just my opinion.  Also try finding an original set of Battery Cables for an Early TR4!  I was extremly lucky to find them on a Four that Scott Harper of Team Triumph had for parts.  You can't believe how unotainium those are.
Regards,
Darrell

member
468 posts

Darrell:  I don't completely agree. angel The use of a battery cut-out switch is good (safety) practice, and period-correct switches are readily available.

I strongly feel that non original battery terminals should be permitted and without penalty.  I approach this from a practical perspective. Batteries, battery terminals and often battery cables require replacement long before the average vehicle life is reached.  This is in part due to the rather crude voltage/current regulation (Lucas control box) utilized in our cars. This often results in battery over charging with electrolyte boiling over and battery terminal corrosion.  Often the condition is bad enough to cause severe corrosion of the lower brass body shell tag. (this has been good for business) devil


I recommend that the current practice of allowing modern clamping-type battery terminals not be modified.

Regards,

Tags

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TRtags
SE PA
TR3A TS58476LO The Grey Lady(currently being restored)
TR250 CD1510LO
member
76 posts

Tags,
That would be OK by me as long as we all know what the rules are and can prepare our cars accordingly.  Personally I will always try to present a Concours Triumph "as it was" the best I can forgoing the safety clamps, etc.  That being said, I have boxed my original Battery  cables on my TR250 because ocassionally I would turn the key and nothing happenned!  sad  That's when compromises have to be made but I have my eye out for suitable originals if I can ever find them.
Cheers,
Darrell

member
456 posts

Just sold a decent negative on eBay Darrell. Started it at .99. I have no real comment on battery terminals, believing that while originality is the key to concours, in general function should preempt form in all things. I'll use the silly helmet heads until my concours bit is mercifully over in the TR2. They are out of the XK150 - no mean task to remove. Never considered them in  the Mark 2.

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John Warfield
TS227LO
member
99 posts

Darrell,
    I don't doubt your expertise, but I can find no evidence that the early TR4 battery cables were different than later TR4's. The part number in my first edition SPC is the same as in later editions. However, we know that ST didn't always change a part number when a part was changed if the form, fit and function were the same.
    Can you explain what the differences are? Any photos?

BTW- I have 5 TR4's in various stages of dis-assembly and they all have the typical clamp-on terminals. I'll have to email my son in NC to see if any of his 9 TR4's have original cables.

Gary

member
99 posts

A bit pricey and not for a TR, but is this the type of terminal John mentioned?

eBay item  120725674864


Gary

member
76 posts

These are the real early TR4 cables from the original donor car found at Scott Harper's Team Triumph.  I suppose the positve cable is not real scarce but I have only seen one other TR4, a 63 presented by Jim Shaw, that had the real TR4 Neg Earth cable with the cover.  Perhaps there are more TR4's out there with the correct cables and again I must say that anyone with the right stuff should be rewarded in Concours  judging that is based on originality if they have been able to find the real parts that came on Triumphs.  It's very easy to claim safety/period equipment.  Much harder to source and maintain the real thing.
Darrell


member
456 posts

I'd love to know when the plastic covers were put on the heads of the negative terminals. Ron Gordon was one on his '60 TR3A that he purchased NOS. I'll have to check in the Lucas catalogues - don't remember seeing them in there.

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John Warfield
TS227LO
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