Interior - Top (Hood) and Sidecurtains

Following are from current version of the Judging Guide:

"Top (Hood) Color - The colors offered on TR2-3B soft covers varied from time to time, and are listed in the attached TR Register article.

Side Curtain Color - Side curtains were covered in the same material as other covers. Again, see the attached materials, and do not deduct points against cars having side curtains matching convertible tops that have been previously judged as having incorrect color."

Thanks,

Frank

There should be one attached to the hardcopy versions of the manual. The DL version mustn't have it. Piggott's Original TR2- 4A book does have similar data. The TR Register article from years ago listed the various types (by reference number) of the various vynides and such. Arcane, but it did allow inferences to the early 'metric' pattern vynides and the horrid gray 'basket weave'.  

If anyone has a hard copy of this material, I would be most grateful if you could make me a copy or scan it and upload.

thanks

One of the topics Mark and I have discussed at some length is the matter of 'baby Tenax' fasteners. This is the sort of dilemma that tests the fabric (a pun) of the whole manual writing process. 

The question in itself is simple: should we continue to deduct for a lack of 'babies' on TR2s originally equipped with them, and if so, what sort of deductions should be made?

A purist would of course say yes - those fortunate or persistant enough to have them should have their luck or efforts recognized, and a failure to do so would taint the manual as being selectively lax. 

On the other hand, 'babies' have become ridiculously hard to find, and potentially quite expensive. A lack of them could cost a TR2 owner a placing in concours or "Best of Show' to a car that was fortunate enough to be of more recent vintage. Deductions are made for both the hood and sidecurtains, which can add up. Some might avoid restoring an early TR2 for concours knowing that they will be facing such a disadvantage before ever really getting started.

This seemedly minor question brings up the issue of manual depth. Theoretically a Judges Guide/Resto manual should be a bible and set both the maximum and minimm standards to which judges and restorers should be expected to adhere. No reaching and no 'breaks'. That is of course an ideal situation which can be challenged as information changes. Easily enough addressed by supplements but..

Therefore we should be quite specific in any exceptions we make to originality and cleanliness and explain why these exceptions are made. A dissertation isn't required, but a note should be included in the text.

Oh, and as for the 'babies' - my opinion is that the deductions should continue, albeit very minor ones.

I have a TR3 and in my restoration process I've seen the references baby Tenax. I see TRF specifically mentions the Tenax they sell are not the babies. Other than reading that they were used on TR2s and hence not on my 3 (so why worry about it) I still am interested to really understand the differences. All I can find is that the heads of the babies are about 2/3 the size of their "big brothers." My books, even Google, isn't helping me. Does the other half ("is it called the button head") for both look the same for example? I know I would be interested to see pictures of both in the guide.

The head (ball) and the base (hex-sided) are smaller on the babies, although the difference is less noticeable. Early TR2 people are really the only ones who need be concerned, other than those involved with drafting the manual and the judges who have to look for these little monsters on the field.

As one of the lucky early TR 2 owners currently looking for baby tenaxs (is that the correct plural of tenax?) I'm sensative to this issue. I have 30, just enough for the tonneau, but well short of the top and sidecurtains required quantity. Any donations will be appreciated.

My opinion is that they should still be required, but that the penalty be minimal. Alternately, how about a subclass for earlier TR 2s.

See you at TRA 2010, but withouy the TR 2! We now have a TR 8 to drive during the restoration.

Earl Ferguson
TS 27 L 

In my opinion yes, heavy penalties must be inmposed. I mean, how can it be perfect if it doesn't have Baby Tenax fittings. Penalties should be in the range of disqualification to impounding of your car for more than two years. The car will be stored at my place for my enjoyment.

Please take my sense of humor lightly. Your level of concern for the purity is way above any of my work and obviously I am very jealous.

If a top requires, let's say 16 fasteners and it has 12 correct and 4 incorrect, then I would say the point deduction should be 1/4 of the weight of the point value of the Key Point Indicator (KPI) number.
If the KPI requires a correct top, a correct tonneau  as well as a correct hood stick then all three items must be present and correct with correct fasteners.

Would this recommendation make sense?

Forget the hood stick. I still have one, never used, that came with my first TR 3A bought new in October 1958.

EArl Ferguson

I don 't have enough for a hoodstick cover but will have one made anyway in the event I get lucky enough to find more fasteners. Tonneaus do everything a hoodstick cover does and more....  

Forget the hood stick. I still have one, never used, that came with my first TR 3A bought new in October 1958.
EArl Ferguson

-eaferguson

Tonneaus look better than hoodsticks and they are infinitely more furctional. Delete the hoodstick from the requirement list.

Actually, regarding hoodstick covers there is some evidence that not all cars had them. Some were issued tonneaus only, and there are notes that suggest that requesting one negated the other unless the owner pais for an additional cover. Concours requires neither.

Since we are talking about concours here, tonneau covers and hoodstick covers are of no concern.  Cars are presented for concours with tops up and sidecurtains available for examination.  If you have an early car which originally came with Baby Tenax, use what you've found on the pieces which are judged and scored.

Now as far as penalties or deductions, I'm all for leniency at this point.  As it stands now, the point deduction for both top and sidecurtains is so great that no early car without the correct Baby Tenax fasteners is ever going to win Best of Show.  These little rascals have been increasingly difficult to find over the years, and it's my belief that just about all of them which still exist have been found by now.  Considering the time and expense required to restore one of these cars to a competitive level of excellence, I would think that the Baby Tenax issue and the thought that the car would never be eligible to win BOS would discourage many people from even starting to restore any of the early cars remaining in storage today.  We've already made concessions for other unobtainable parts, such as top material with the white lining on the under side, so in the interest of encouraging the restoration of any early TR2's which are still hiding in barns rather than discouraging it, we should lower the deduction to something very minimal, if anything at all.  On the other hand, I could level the playing field and start making an equal deduction for all of the oversized reproduction Tenax fasteners that all the rest of the concours cars are using !  Yes, there are THREE sizes of these, and the only one available today is much larger than the original "large" Tenax fasteners.  As soon as time permits, I'll get photos and measurements posted to my web site and possibly into the next newsletter (sorry, June is already at the printer).

Mark

The baby Tenax issue will always be with us, regardless of our decision as 'redrafters'. The tradeoff between making allowances and making deductions is well known to anyone with an interest in the issue, and the solution simple - make deductions but keep them minor enough that an early TR2 won't be facing an unfair dissadvantage when competing in concours.

It is possible to find tops (hoods) with inner fabric similar to the original 'light neutral tan' used originally; I had it on my TR3A, as well as the moquete covered rubber seal at the leading edge of the top where it meets the screen frame. The former was pure luck - Everflex made a black/tan back then - and the latter just took time and patience to modify the top. Other colors aren't so easy; the maroon that Everflex uses to pass for Blackberry does not have a tan liner...

I don 't have enough for a hoodstick cover but will have one made anyway in the event I get lucky enough to find more fasteners. Tonneaus do everything a hoodstick cover does and more....  

-jdwtrxk

The early TR2's that we're discussing through TS3512 used Baby Tenax EVERYWHERE.  Not a single Lift-the-Dot was used anywhere on the car.  That's why this is such a big deal.  We're  talking about a large quantity of Baby Tenax fasteners needed for each car, not just the 10 across the top of the windscreen.
Mark

I stand corrected. Noted. Obviously i am not knowledgeable on concours topics.